Blogger: Wendy Lawton
I received the email below a couple of weeks ago. As I began to answer this I decided I should tackle the answer here and then let you chew on this with me and help me come up with the real answers.
Here’s the email:
I am a student at a community college and would like to know if you would PLEASE give me brief advice on the type of degree I need or classes that would help me write children’s books or more specifically a line of children’s books.
I live in [deleted] and want to look at my path through an agents eyes to pair with my school’s counseling center’s advice.
First, it is tough to be brief with a question like this one. There’s much to consider. Let’s look at five things here but focus on the comment section for the real wisdom.
- I would say that the people to answer this question would be the Society of Children’s Book Writers and Illustrators (SCBWI). I noticed that grants given by SCBWI are given to students majoring in English or Creative Writing programs, so those two majors would be one bit of advice.
- Most agents would not recommend creative writing programs because they tend to focus on literary fiction as opposed to commercial fiction. Why would an agent steer an author away from literary toward commercial? Hint: Commercial means that which sells.
- English, of course, would be the major most likely to prepare you to write. Journalism is also a good major for someone who wants to write professionally. But let me come back to that.
- Authors need to be communicators on many levels these days. I’d suggest you not stint on speech classes (you’ll make a good part of your income doing school visits and speaking). You’ll also want to learn everything you can about social media.If I were you, I’d learn to design and run a website as well.
- I don’t want to discourage you in any way but let’s talk turkey here. There are precious few writers making a living as children’s authors. And if you are going to be one of those who does make a living, or even a fortune (it could happen), it will take a number of years to get there. If you don’t have a patron of the arts (also called a working spouse) you are going to need to support yourself while you write. When I look at the list of successful Books & Such clients I see teachers, a pharmacist, doctors, pastors, lawyers, a biochemist, artists,construction workers, firemen, social media experts, etc., etc. All that to say this: you may want to get a dual major– the one that prepares you to write and the one that will put food on the table while you are building your writing career.
Okay, blog community, your turn. I’ve let this student know you’ll be chiming in today so what advice would you give her?
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Most of us didn’t follow a pre-planned career path. My job (hospital quality and patient safety) didn’t exist when I was in college. It is wonderful when your job is your passion, but there’s honor in working at something else and pursuing your passion on your own time. God opens doors, and only he knows the path ahead.
For this student: Why CHILDREN’s books? What’s the reason you want to connect with kids? Is God calling you to work with children? Start now–volunteer for an after-care program, teach Sunday school, be a camp counselor, babysit. And keep a notebook, real life will present fodder for future stories.
Walk with God, my young friend, and children’s book series or not, the journey will be rewarding.
Great advice, Shirlee. I agree. A children’s writer should be immersed in the world of children.
Good point, Shirlee! Can’t write for children if you don’t know children.
Wendy,
thank you so much for creating this blog. The comments are invaluable! My goal is still the same (write books for children in “kid speak” to help them know and understand God on a personal level), but is now very defined and clear. The best thing I will take away from this blog is what I call the “Good Will Hunting” reference which is, no matter how much you read on a subject, you know zip about it until you live that subject. I will march foward with a refreshed purpose and new found confidence. Merci ladies!
I think there are several things to consider. First, look for a major that immerses you in experience with children and language (sentence structure, vocabulary, idioms).
A community college degree might be in childcare; paraprofessional work in elementary, special education (LD resource), or reading intervention; or even as an interpreter for the deaf. The later two require that you rephrase information or ideas. In other words, you play with language and communicate in a variety of ways with children all day.
A four-year degree might be in education (elementary, special education – LD resource, reading intervention, deaf education – or English). My original degree was in education of the deaf. I was actually educated in how to write for children at various reading levels.
Another really helpful degree (most places a master’s) is Speech and Language Pathology. Many people thing of this as articulation (pronouncing words), but it is also understanding and teaching vocabulary, idioms, multiple meaning words, social language, etc.
I also LOVE Wendy’s idea of taking speech and/or web design as electives.
Working with children in a variety of settings helps as well. In other words, the same child playing in the neighborhood communicates differently at school, at church, and around the family dinner table. You need to have experience with children beyond your own family.
Second, consider your finances. You may have a spouse who supports your dream (verbally and financially), but the bills must be paid. Think of a job that comes alongside your dream of writing. The ones above might be options for you.
Third, realize that everything happens in God’s time. Turn your writing dreams over to Him. Give every aspect of life your best effort. See where He leads.
Interesting suggestions, Carol. I never would have thought about those as a pre-requisite for writing.
Study writing (read books in your genre), and pay attention in grammar class. In high school, grammar was never my favorite … diagramming sentences seemed so hard. Then, my first college class on business English helped me fall in love with words. It really did! But homeschooling my girls and revisiting grammar (every single year) helped me most. Study it!
Start writing. This is the writing advice that Beth Moore gave once. I believe God used that step alone to open doors for me. Take that step out in faith.
I’d agree. Do colleges teach grammar these days? I don’t know but it would interesting to find out.
And yes! Start writing. Write every day.
Wendy,
I speak only from my limited experience with three colleges, but the answer to your question “Do colleges teach grammar these days” most likely is no. As someone who teaches “Developmental” (read “remedial”) Writing, I have found that the attitude of college administrators–and many English professors–is that students SHOULD have learned grammar in grades 1-12. Unfortunately, many have not. So I teach as much grammar as I can (although I’ve been told by a department head that the only way I should address grammar is through comments on student papers.) I’ve taught in two colleges and found the same attitude in both places. There were no courses offered in grammar except for ESL students. Even my alma mater, Loyola University / New Orleans, which is a pretty decent academic institution, didn’t offer any grammar instruction. I took a course called “Grammar and Language” at Loyola because I wanted to improve my own skills. The course turned out to be about linguistics and the history of the English language. It was a fascinating class and one of favorites as I obtained my B.A. in English / Writing, but I was disappointed that it did nothing to improve my knowledge of grammar. I had to do that through self-study. 🙁
Wendy, thank you for steering this young woman toward a double major. I have spent years in school guidance. It is difficult to speak the truth in love to students, but we must caution them about career choices, the actual job market, and the burden of student debt. I have also(sadly) spoken to dozens of adults who wish someone had given them advice before spending 4-5 years on an unrealistic or poorly thought-through career goal,and amassed a crippling burden of debt.
In addition, I recently stumbled upon a great podcast on finding your life calling. It is by Edie Wadsworth of Grace Talks Inspiration. It can be found on iTunes podcasts called “A 7-Step Journey Toward Joy- A Life of Calling”
Thanks, Sheila, for that resource as well as for your sage advice.
Majoring in English with an intent to write is like majoring in PE with the goal of becoming an Olympic athlete.
It will tell you where the locker room is. Nothing more. You will find the Olympics, and your writing career, in your heart.
Read a lot, write a lot, and join a crit group. Major in what you love, what engages you with the world, and you will find your stories there.
I agree with you, Surpreet.
Many thanks, Sir.
Wise advice, Surpreet.
Wendy,
I think you gave the young would be author sound advice. I also like the idea of a double major if that is feasable.
What I wanted to major in college when I was in high school (education) was not what I ended up with a degree in (communications). Even though I had a lot of speech, english and journalism classes, I made sure I took a lot of businsess clases too. The way the business market has change in the last thirty years since I graduated, the skills I’ve learned on the job and in life were the most beneficial of all.
Business is actually a good major for a career in writing– when we set out to write these days we need to be entrepreneurs as well as artists. Besides if a person were to major in Business and communications there are so many possibilities for a “day job” like writing tech manuals, advertising copy, grants, etc. The things that pay the bills while we build our “business.”
Dear ‘Student’,
How brave of you to ask these questions. I hope we can be of some help to you. And thank you, Wendy, for opening the floor for our answers.
If someone wants to write for children, that person needs to hang out at the source. And not just when kids are fun, but when they’re short pains in the neck and you need to think fast how to diffuse a problem.
Kids know when they are being studied and patronized. They know when they’re being scheduled for observation. They LIKE to be treated as humans and given credit for their brains. And most kids have well developed senses of humour, so write ‘up’, not down to them.
Watch kid’s TV shows and see what I mean. The successful shows don’t rely on dumbing things down. Phineas and Ferb is a perfect example. The writing on that show is high brow, quite stellar, and smart. How smart? My husband will watch it He does not watch TV! He laughs himself silly through P&F and takes great fun in yelling out their source material jokes(Star Wars, Lord of te Rings, any kind of science). AND he quotes it. He will hold up his calculator and yell “Help, my nerd is stuck in a tree!”
Any show that can combine multi-faceted layers that draw the parents in *with* the kids, means the writers know how kids think.
Books for kids need to rely less on precocious characters, and more on unique takes on everyday life.
In his book “The Hockey Sweater”, Roch (Rock) Carrier totally nailed it. The layers in this story are incredible and I think the story applies to any kid, in any country.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hockey_Sweater
Scholastic Canada carries this book every year, because it is spot on.
Best wishes, ‘Student’ and I hope you enjoy the journey toward publication.
Jennifer,
I so agree about writing up, not down, to kids. BTW – Now I want to read the Hockey Sweater : )
I love this book, my kids love it. And I’ve read it, ohhhh, A LOT!
This book is SO entrenched in our culture, it was quoted on our 5$ bill!!
As a woman who group up living and breathing youth and young adults, I can speak to this possibility. I’m making the assumption children are your passion, of course, not just children’s books. But if that is the case, there’s a 50/50 chance you’ll marry someone with the same passion for kids. i.e. a youth pastor. Which means, YOU’LL probably be the main breadwinner. Unless he’s hired on by a very stable church that can afford to pay him more than the average $30-35K a year. So,I cannot stress enough the necessity to prepare for real life–and seeing writing as your secondary job. Not the one that supports a husband’s ministry, but one that compliments, potentially aids, or perhaps merely assuages your need to write.
Just an extra side thought. Of course, not all children’s book lovers marry youth pastors 🙂 So I’m taking a big leap in assuming such. But it’s just a real to life example of someone who finds herself the main bread winner with a husband who works super hard too. A lot women will NOT have the luxury to stay at home and write in between child rearing. They have to do housework, child rearing, a full time job AND THEN write. So prepare for that scenario.
Very good advice, Jaime.
Regardless of what a spouse does it can be a terrible upheaval to writing if there is one breadwinner and he/she is laid off. In these days when working for a company for forty years and getting the gold watch on retirement almost never happens, we all need to have some back-up plans.
All this advice looks good to me, but I’ll add my vote for an education (K-8) major with an English minor (or a dual major).
As a teacher, you’ll be around your reading audience daily. You’ll see for yourself what interests them and what turns them off. Even better, you’ll be seeing what interests kids in the here-and-now, not what interested you, or your own kids when they were briefly the age of your audience. Bonus: you’ll be earning that necessary paycheck to keep the wolves at bay.
Most importantly, as others have said, you learn by doing. Writers write.
One of the things a writer focused on writing for children needs to be aware of is that the children’s literary market is likely to change more than any other part of the book world.
As soon as Fisher-Price or Little Tykes comes out with a big yellow plastic landscape-spread eBook device, the children’s market will be re-energized. It costs so much now to print five-color picture books and illustrated books that parents have been falling behind in buying gorgeous books. When they can buy them as inexpensive eBooks who knows what will happen.
I just hope publishers of children’s eBooks will continue to value dedicated children’s writers and not think of the books as simple product that can be created in house by staffers.
I have a degree in English Literature from UCLA, which has been invaluable for understanding the richness of the literary canon–a backbone as it were.
Most of the important lessons, however, came from the Daily Bruin newsroom where being tossed into the fire made me learn how to right cleanly, tight and on deadline. I grew up there, as well, having to confront ethical issues about life and writing.
Back in those dark ages, we were told that it’s important to major in a SUBJECT in college–anyone can be taught to write but you can’t make up for those four lost years of indepth learning in a particular area that captures your imagination and interest.
I’d second taking some business classes if they’re offered, just because it’s helpful not to be lost when your computer falls apart or you can’t read a spread sheet to understand royalty reports.
As for children–it’s not as easy as it looks and parenting, for me, has been by far the best learning place. And I don’t even write for children. 🙂
Anyone can be taught to write? You make it sound so easy, Michelle, and I know you didn’t mean to imply that. I’d say that the 10,000 hours (see Malcolm Gladwell’s Outliers) it will take before you can claim mastery of an endeavor is far more work than four years of college. Right?
That was the comment from the LA Times; they wanted reporters who actually knew something, not people who had majored in how to write.
10,000 hours divided by 20 hours a week equals 500 weeks, or about 10 years to master something. I wrote for 25 before my first book was published, maybe longer. How about you? 🙂
I agree that a degree in something that involves children and a minor in English or Journalism would be the wise way to go.
The only worry with this advice is whether this student will want to stick with writing for children. Very often young writers who’ve just cut their teeth on middle grade of YA see themselves writing the same fare but as their own reading habits mature their writing evolves as well.
One of the problems in writing for children is it pays so much less than writing for adults. If you are writing a picture book, for instance, You share the small advance and royalties with the illustrator. If you’re writing middle grade each book sold will only be $6 or $7 as opposed to adult trade at $13 – $16. The writer gets a percentage of the book cover price or the net price. Usually means a children’s writer gets about half what a novel for the adult reader brings.
I have a Mass Communication/Print Journalism degree. While my classes taught me to write newspaper articles, they didn’t prepare me to write fiction. When I began writing stories, I learned that I had a LOT to learn.
Was my degree a waste? No. I learned to write on deadline. I learned to write well-crafted sentences. I learned to look for the hook. Those skills come in handy as a creative writer, too.
What helped more than my coursework was my job. Because of my chosen major, I was able to move from the bookkeeping department of the small textbook publishing company where I worked to the production department. Working as an assistant editor enabled me to see what goes into getting a book published–from the other side of the desk.
When I began writing, I had realistic expectations because of my experience. I had seen firsthand what the life of a writer looked like and knew that if I wanted to succeed, I’d have to put in time studying, writing, revising and editing. Learning to write marketable fiction is an ongoing process, but it can be such fun.
Sounds like you had a perfect vocational trail leading to becoming an author. Our young student might want to consider cutting her teeth on an internship or a job in a publishing house.
I teach writing at the university level and creative writing to gifted public school students. The people who will succeed in writing are those to steep themselves in the craft, who are passionate about it and who will dedicate years of their lives to the pursuit of excellence. My best writing students are those who have already begun that process. It is evident in how they skillfully write and know the purposes and goals of language.
Perhaps I should’ve done a better job proofreading my own writing!
Well put, Lora. It’s dedication to the craft that makes a writer.
Stephen King says that to be a writer you need to do two things: read a lot and write a lot. That may seem simplistic, but I really do think it’s superb advice for anyone who desires a writing life. My bachelor’s degree is in French, with minors in music and English. The English minor was an afterthought, intended to make me more marketable as a high school teacher. I taught for one year. One. A couple of years ago I went back to school and got a master’s degree in history. The correlation to my writing life is that I write historical fiction. But I have over twenty books in the marketplace, and none of them resulted from my formal education–except for the fact that getting those degrees required me to read a lot and write a lot. I don’t think any of my publishers know or care whether I have formal training or a writing degree. It’s all about the story. And Wendy’s comment about earning a living is spot on. Earning a living as a writer is a dream that few people realize–even the ones who are able to call themselves “award winning” and “best selling.” These things do not necessarily translate to a living wage.
Might it be said that reading are the fanned flames, and the practice of writing the hammer blows that together forge the sword of a well-told tale?
Perfect answer, Stephanie. And your history masters shows in every book. You capture each era so expertly.
I agree with Elissa about going the education route. Remember, you get chunks of time off with major holidays and about 9-12 weeks in the summer. I’ve done it for 25 years and am now ready to make the time to study the publishing world.
I agree that college courses in creative writing tend to be more academic than commercial, so I suggest taking the Connecticut’s Institute of Children’s Literature course. It teaches you how to write to be published. I took it back in the mid-90’s before the prevalence of the Internet and received excellent feedback from my course instructor, a published author. Below is the link.
http://www.institutechildrenslit.com/
How about a degree in library science? This could be in a school or public library. You could form reading clubs and writing clubs to interact with others. Keeping abreast of technology would be a given. The journalism route would teach you to be concise, revise quickly, and meet deadlines.
Whatever major you pick, choose one that will seem fun—that way it won’t seem like work and you’ll be fulfilled and enjoy it most days—especially when a regular paycheck comes.
Most of all, pray for wisdom to recognize the people and the opportunities the Lord puts in your path to help you be the writer He wants you to be and when.
Best wishes.
Library science. That would be a great fit as well. One of my clients, Judy Gann is a librarian and is our resident expert on all things library and books. (And she’s the brains behind our Library Insider http://www.libraryinsider.com )
I love this. I have a young friend that wants to be a writer and she is working and saving up for college. She really can’t afford it and I almost feel like she would be better learning a trade while pursuing her writing dream. I feel there’s so many ways to learn about writing without going to college for a degree. I’ve learned everything I know from books and conferences and blogs. But then, I’m not a literary writer 🙂 There’s also courses like Christian Writer’s Guild that focus on commercial writing.
I’m not bashing college at all, if you can afford it, go for it. But if you can’t, I’m not sure it’s necessary for a writer.
What you say scares every parent trying to push their children toward college but I often think that our writer’s conferences, blogs and online courses like the ones offered by ACFW ought to give college credit– most are so intense.
I feel the same, Angela. I’ve learned everything I know from blogs, conferences, reading books on the craft, and reading in general. Actually, I did take a course through the Institute of Children’s Literature that proved to be invaluable, but that’s the extent of my formal education as it pertains to writing. 🙂
Dear Student,
I cannot advise you on how to write for children, but I can give some valuable advice that a Finance Professor once gave me: Diversify! Diversify! Diversity!
I obtained an English degree from Ohio State University when I was in my early 40’s. I think the most important thing is to have passion for what you are doing and to be blessed with some writing talent. During my second English class at OSU, a professor thought I had talent and advised me to start sending out my work to local newspapers. He said I’d learn what I needed along the way, and I did.
However, I also got interested in computers and earned my primary living as a technical writer. Technical writing pays pretty well.
I wouldn’t concentrate on one just one type of writing. You could starve to death doing that. Try many types of writing to find your niche and to make some extra money along the way.
I was lucky that I liked to write nonfiction. I’ve written a ton of articles for newspapers and magazines and got paid decently for them. But I love to write essays and tell others about my experiences, so I recently completed a memoir which I am going to pitch at writing conferences this summer.
My technical writing ability let me support my family and save enough money to strike out on my own. By the way, it’s never a waste to study the masters. You want to write up to the highest level not down to the lowest.
Good luck!
Karin
Now here’s great advice: I wouldn’t concentrate on one just one type of writing. You could starve to death doing that. Try many types of writing to find your niche and to make some extra money along the way.
Thanks, Karin.
Okay, looks like I could use some editing too! I thought I would be able to edit my text within 30 seconds of sending. Oops!
We don’t beat ourselves up for typos in posts– we all know we’re communicating quickly here. This is a grace-for-typos zone.
Formal education aside (because that’s already been mentioned) hang around your future readers. This could include helping at VBS and summer camps, or being involved in a parks & recreation program for kids. Young people are opinionated and enjoy interacting with adults who genuinely invest in them and listen to their contributions.
From another angle, hang out in places where readers lurk and linger. Volunteer at a library, work at a bookstore.
I get a warm fuzzy feeling when I recall the years I worked at a used bookstore. Sweet connections were made with readers as I bought books from them, and sold them books they sought out, and titles they never knew they needed until they browsed the aisles.
And please keep visiting this blog. Many have endured my gushing about the people I’ve met here, and the wealth of information I’ve learned about the publishing industry.
I cannot sign off without giving a shout out to the winsome, and wise woman I have the privilege of partnering with. 🙂
I love how you say agents don’t recommend creative writing classes. I took a couple in college and I can definitely see what you mean! The most beneficial thing to me, besides the basics they taught, was learning how to take criticism. Every week we did workshop, and I learned how to have my writing torn to shreds without getting upset at people.
English is a very valuable major for writing, simply because you read so much you start to pick up the rhythm of things. But not such a valuable major for economical purposes. 🙂
Two smart writerly cousins steered me toward a career in corporate and internal communications (think: editor for donor publications, speaking points, FAQs, crisis planning, press releases, web copy, planning mini in-house campaigns). One of the cousins worked for Bobbi Brown cosmetics (she co-authored the teenage make-up beauty books, and gets to travel with Bobbi!); the other has worked in fast food PR for almost twenty years (she was at Wendy’s during the “finger-in-the-chili” scam). They both insisted that, if you can learn the art of shaping a message and science of making it sticky, you can bring that power to any industry–especially your own art.
So I took their “leave with a marketable degree” advice and earned my bachelors in Communications. Looking back, I wish I’d tacked a business degree on, too! It never hurts to know how the world works… 😉
As a chemistry major with a doctorate in pharmacy, I love this question 🙂 The most common question I hear from aspiring young writers is what they should major in. My answer – anything you want to!
As Wendy noted, writing doesn’t pay well and provides little stability – contract to contract. If you like food and shelter, another career helps, even part-time (I work one day a week as a hospital pharmacist).
Obviously my chem major didn’t teach me much about writing – although I could turn out a killer lab report 🙂 But it taught me analytical skills and the importance of hard work completed on time. And pharmacy taught me how to integrate multiple lines of information, which is very much like integrating multiple plotlines, character motivations, etc. An excellent education teaches your brain how to think, no matter the major.
And God has used my education for the type of writing I do. My health care background helped me write about WWII nurses and hospitals. My science training is helping me make some sense out of the 550-page Naval Ordnance and Gunnery Manual from 1944 (although my brain aches). And I’m not afraid to use Excel 🙂
I love how many varied careers I see among both published and aspiring writers! This provides varied outlooks, varied plotlines, and varied characters.
So would I go back in time and change my major? Absolutely not. Besides, then I never would have met my hubby 🙂
Sarah, it sounds like how you met your hubby is a story waiting to be told.
Nothing terribly exciting. We had both gone to UCLA but didn’t know each other there. When I started pharmacy school, he was in charge of the orientation program. And on the first day, he was wearing a UCLA T-shirt. I had to introduce myself. He likes to say I picked him up. I like to say he ran the orientation program just to check out the first-years 🙂
You could start from there and use your imagination. I met my husband when my fiancé introduced us.
I got a major in Film with a minor in music. This prepared me very well to be an author. Movies are but another method of storytelling.
Classes that support writing (like literature analysis, creative writing, etc) can be useful. But who said you had to major in them?
You don’t have to major in a field that leads you to being a writer. Like others said before, many of us need Day Jobs to support our writing habits. I acutally work in the IT industry while studying for my MS.
If you don’t major in English or Creative Writing or other similar field, feel free to minor in it. Writing is one of those career that you don’t have to have formal education.
That said, we all work through our apprenticeships as we master the Craft. Go to workshops, get critiqued, go to conferences, network, study up, read stuff and analyse what you read, write/write/write until you find your voice… this is what truly teaches us to be writers.
If anyone asks, I’m a journeyman. Some day I’ll be a master, but only after I start making serious money from writing and not the pocket change I get now.
What a neat topic and interesting discussion. I wish I could have completed college to say I’ve done it. My focus in the classes I’ve taken was on history, which has helped me writing historical fiction.
I have a degree in journalism from UC Berkeley and a teaching credential to teach secondary English/journalism. However, I learned to write for publication by attending writers’ conferences and studying lots of Writer’s Digest Book Club books. I’d recommend an English or journalism degree–but as you’re plowing through all those lit classics, really notice how the writer is putting words together and the effect they have on the story and reader. Engage with the writing and learn from it.
Wendy,
thank you so much for creating this blog. The comments are invaluable! My goal is still the same (write books for children in “kid speak” to help them know and understand God on a personal level), but is now very defined and clear. The best thing I will take away from this blog is what I call the “Good Will Hunting” reference which is, no matter how much you read on a subject, you know zip about it until you live that subject. I will now march forward with a refreshed purpose and new found confidence. Merci ladies!
English / English Literature, theater arts and linguistic would make it perfect. Here https://homework-writer.com you can look at the full list.