Blogger: Rachelle Gardner
Lately more writers have been asking me if they should hire an editor prior to submitting to agents and/or publishers. Most writers who are going the indie route are using freelance editors as well. I think it’s a great idea—if you do it right. Here’s my take on how to make it worth the time and money.
1. Use it as a learning experience. Using a freelance editor can be a great idea if you’re able to learn from what the editor suggests. I think it’s wasted money if you’re simply counting on someone to fix your manuscript for you. The point is to get an experienced set of eyes on it to help you identify problems and figure out how to fix them.
2. Make the changes yourself. I think the best way to work with an editor is to have them give you notes on your book, but not make changes themselves in the manuscript. Then you can go back to your manuscript, grasp the reasons for the changes they’re suggesting, and implement them, all the while learning how to make your book stronger. Hopefully you’re going to take that new knowledge with you into writing the next book.
3. Start with an evaluation of the first few chapters. Sometimes it’s helpful to have an editor do an in-depth critique of the first part of the book, pointing out things that could be improved and discussing how to make those changes. Then you can rework the entire manuscript according to what you learned. It may cost you less, and it’s a terrific learning experience that can help you grow as a writer. It’s almost like having a writing tutor.
4. Plan to continue using an editor. If you get an agent and/or sell your first book based on a manuscript that has been heavily edited (or is the product of intense critique group feedback), plan to do the same thing with your second book before submitting to your agent or publisher. And your third book, etc. Over time you’ll grow as a writer and become less dependent on outside help.
Many agents and editors are uncomfortable with writers having too much outside editorial help prior to being contracted, because it can mask a writer’s true abilities. I’d hate to get you a 3-book contract based on that stellar first book, only to find out that you had a ton of help with it and are not able to deliver that quality of book a second time. This is why you want to try and learn as much as possible from the outside editor.
Have you hired an editor? Have you considered it? Do you think it’s a good idea?
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This is such a helpful post. I hadn’t considered the criteria of finding an editor who can teach me rather than do all the work for me. I love this.
I’ve never hired an editor before. I have tossed the idea around, but I haven’t decided if it’s something I should do. I also appreciate your perspective as an agent, that you want to have a good feel for the writer’s natural voice or/and abilities.
Thanks for sharing this, Rachelle!
Jeanne, I agree with you that it’s refreshing to know an agent wants a feel for the writer’s natural voice and abilities. If you partner with someone for the long haul, authenticity is so important from the get go.
Thanks for a great post, Rachelle. Great suggestions. I have two basic questions.
One. A writing tutor? Where do I find one of those? I imagine that is just what the term implies. One-on-one teaching of the craft? Writers’ Digest classes, KidLit course, ACFW course loop and webinars. Those are things I’ve looked into, but a writing tutor sounds more intense and may be what I need.
Two. About cost. For a piece of less than 2000 words, what should we expect to pay? Or the first 50 pages of a manuscript? What is a fair price to pay, and what would you consider out of line? I know it depends on the type of edit being asked for. Let’s say I want the works, an overall get-the-red-pen-out critique.
My wife and I met online; she was in Indiana, and I was in Texas.
The first time we met in person, she came to Texas, as I had recently fed my right arm through a planer. We met at the airport, and had promised, “no pretense”; she was dressed in shorts and a pretty blouse, with her short hair gently waved, and just a blush to her cheeks.
I was wearing tatty bush jacket and shorts, go-fasts with no socks (and the sides slit – I have wide feet). I had shaved that week, I think; both head and beard. I had a huge white bandage on my arm…but I’d been working, and the bandage wasn’t really very white.
Barbara took one look, and then looked over her shoulder. Mope, no way she could dodge back past the security checkpoint.
There is a good side to “come as you are”, but it can be overdone.
I had been advised by a guy who happened to be gay that “you REALLY need a makeover, dear, if you’re serious about this woman”; but I thought, No. I’m good.
If I had taken the makeover with committing myself to the fundamental change a new appearance would have promised, it would have been a lie. Without the will to change, the makeover would have been a Potemkin village, built on my soul.
Here endeth the lesson.
I had my husband’s cousin look over my first non-fiction work. She had worked as an editor for a newspaper for years. I hadn’t written much before that and had lost so many grammar skills. She really helped refresh all that in my memory. And every article I write, my editor checks it over and makes any needed corrections. But my goal on each one is not to need a single fix. But that, as well, is a huge learning tool. And I soak it all in. Plus, I’m constantly googling for help.
I want to be able to write this book, without much help. Me. If I were agented and told to have it edited, I would. But for now, I probably won’t.
And one thing you really have to be careful about is outsiders taking away your voice. That’s just my experience.
You might consider hiring a freelance editor earlier in the work–before you get far in the writing. For a couple hundred dollars you can “buy some time,” and have them do a detailed analysis of your synopsis and/or your proposal.
Discuss it with them and you can start the writing with problems hopefully fixed before you get too far in.
“Many agents and editors are uncomfortable with writers having too much outside editorial help prior to being contracted, because it can mask a writer’s true abilities.”
With contest deadlines coming up, I’m bothered by the thought of heavily edited entries. My critique group always reviewed my entries, and I reviewed theirs. But where’s the line between a few little tweaks/suggestions and an entry that’s been edited by a professional? And is it fair to enter a professionally edited entry into a contest? Just wondering.
I know what you mean. My critique partner and I have entered a contest together for years, we entered before we met too. Every year it just seemed impossible. We’d I literally had one judge give me a 99.7 and another judge give me a 64. Ahhhhh! And then I found out that some folks can afford to pay a pro to edit their contest entry. I balked. No, I wanted to learn how to do it myself. Good thing too cause I can’t afford an editor. But I wanted to encourage you because last year both my crit partner and I were semi-finalists in that same contest and she even finaled in a different contest. We did get better, all on our own. It just took awhile and chapter after chapter exchanged and torn apart and put back together again. So if you can’t afford the editor, make good friends!
Kristen, thank you for your encouraging words. I’ve had similar experiences with high-scoring/low-scoring judges on the same entry. It’s part of the territory. I don’t want to be braggy, but also don’t want anyone to think my comment was a case of sour grapes. I won the Genesis historical category in 2011 (without a professional edit) and that entry became my debut novel. You are so sweet, though, to share your experiences and offer hope. Contests are a great way to get feedback and to get noticed. I’m all for them! Just concerned about a possible trend that might not be such a good thing.
So true, Johnnie. What a great point!
Getting an objective assessment of our work can be invaluable, no doubt. A long time ago I sent off a novel to an understanding agent, and she returned my manuscript with three evaluations: First, she told me to delete every adverb because an adverb means that I’ve chosen the wrong verb. Second, she advised me to get a copy of T.S. Kane’s THE NEW OXFORD GUIDE TO WRITING, and absorb it. Finally, she told me to write about what I knew and leave fantasy to dreamers. When my rush of anger stopped and I cooled down, I took everything she told me to heart. I’ve never been sorry. Some of us need a good ass-kicking from time to time.
Worth the price of admission right there: “First, she told me to delete every adverb because an adverb means that I’ve chosen the wrong verb.”
Great advice.
Now back to my manuscript . . .
This strikes me as wisdom speaking. An objective opinion is invaluable. Thanks for sharing.
Hiring an editor, particularly a developmental editor if you write fiction, is worth their weight in gold. Trying to go it alone then seeking representation is extremely difficult because you’re not tapping into professional advice which can greatly increase your chances. They can teach and help you learn the art of writing, and that’s really what writing is, an art. I used an editor for my first book and was published. My second is almost finished with her help and am hoping for the same result.
Thanks for writing and sharing a great article.
Since I’d been working on one ms. since 2003 for…oh ten years or so, this was a great fear. If it takes me 10 years to get this right, will it take me ten years to write the next one? That seems a bit slow. But exchanging chapters with my crit partner is teaching me. Slowly I am learning and the ms. that finally sold didn’t take very long to write. So yeah, learning from an editor is possible. I wasn’t sure until I saw it start to happen. I just happen to have a critique partner who fills that editor roll for me.
Ten years? That’s nothing! Harper Lee took fifty to write the sequel to TO KILL A MOCKINGBIRD. Remember the old adage, “The wheels of the gods grind slow, but exceedingly fine.”
I worked with a fantastic freelance editor for a content edit of my novel. But let me tell you, I did my homework before I contacted her. If possible, I think it’s imperative to ask those who’ve worked with the editor about their personal experiences.
Without a doubt, it was an investment well made. One I’ll gladly make again. Whether my edited MS ever sees the publishing light of day or not, I’ve acquired many tools for my editing tool belt.
I had a manuscript edited by an author whose work I admired. Her critique was absolutely devastating. It was also bewildering. I’d already learned it was a Genesis finalist. I took the first chapter to conference and shared it with Gayle Roper in a mentor appointment. Gayle told me disregard a lot of the comments. If I were to have a profession edit again (and I’m not planning on it), I’d find someone familiar with my genre.
Terri, what an awful experience. So glad you were able to get Gayle’s take on the situation. Keep up the great, Genesis-finalist worthy work. 🙂
Oh, Terri, so thankful you went to Gayle. I’m sure that was very confusing …
Great post, Rachelle!
This is exactly why I became an editor. There’s a great high that comes with watching authors learn, grow, and gain confidence in their abilities.
Being part of that journey is so rewarding.
It is imperative, though, that authors make sure the editors they hire know their stuff. There are too many self-proclaimed editors who are not familiar with industry-standard style guides and have no formal training.
If you find an editor who knows what she is doing and is passionate about your work, you will find a friend and cheerleader for life! (And in the case of Christian editors, you will find a life-long prayer partner!)
I believe it was because of an editor that my first novel was accepted for publication. I then went on to have my next one edited by the same editor and I got an agent. It really does help find those bad spots.
I don’t know how many times a post like this comes just when I need it. I’ve been struggling with the idea of a real editing of my next book. The questions at the end of this ramble is “How do you find the perfect editor without paying a ton of money for several wrong editors first?”
I’ve had short partials by a real editor (who sadly for me is no longer editing but writing) and I’ve had knowledgeable persons reading for different things, but I have not had the $$ for a real, professional edit.
There is one person I would love to hire. I can’t afford her. There is another person that comes highly recommended. I can’t afford her either. I’ve scoured the websites of others.
And Rachel, you and others have hit on two things that are really bothering me that have nothing to do with money. The first is the idea of ending up with a book that isn’t mine, isn’t me. If I can learn from something and improve, that’s great. If I can make my book better, that’s great. But I’m not interested in ghostwriting someone else’s book. (And yes, I have had a reader in the past whose suggestions had nothing to do with making my story better and everything to do with writing the story she would have written).
The other thing is the idea of the editor working on the actual manuscript document that bothers me for two reasons: (1) I publish independently and have to help myself any way I can. So I format before I ever start writing–including chapters, section breaks, headers/footers, etc. (2) Many if not most editors I’ve checked on use the tracking thing in Word. I’ve used it, but I’m not that proficient with it.
The problem with someone else working within that document, maybe even changing things, for sure checking the second go-around to make sure I made their suggested change (yes, one does this) is that all kinds of things can happen to the document formatting IF they accepted it the way I format it (which they don’t).
I guess what I’m thinking is that having two documents formatted so differently would add a lot of unnecessary work–and the greater potential of missing something.
My brother and I as well as my niece and I edit for each other all the time (all with English, teaching, writing backgrounds), but we never mess with each other’s original document. We work on a copy–using tracking and highlighting–but on the copy. Then we talk about the suggested changes.
I would love to be able to afford editing. I would love to have the advice of someone who knows more than I do. But “How do you find the perfect editor without paying a ton of money for several wrong editors first?”
Sylvia,
Those are some real concerns and valid questions. When I take on new clients, I often consult with them over the telephone to talk about the scope of their work and their goals for the manuscript. I’m sure other editors do the same. This would help you get a feel for whether they are right for you. You can discuss whether they are willing to accept your format or make handwritten changes on a hard copy.
Here are a couple of sites where you can find Christian editors:
http://christianeditor.com/
http://thechristianpen.com/contributing-members/
Christian Editor Connection screens all of their editors. Each editor must pass a proficiency test in every area of editing they offer.
God has the right editor for you already picked out. Most of the work in finding him or her is just resting in His presence and listening to His voice.
Sylvia,
You asked, “How do you find the perfect editor without paying a ton of money for several wrong editors first?”
Great question! I actually left quite a long answer yesterday, but it included some links to the Christian Editor Connection and the Christian PEN so it is still awaiting moderation.
The short answer to your question is that many freelance editors will do a sample edit at no cost. They will spend time speaking with you on the telephone about your manuscript and your goals for it. Between a phone consultation and a sample edit, you should be able to tell if they are going to be right for you as well as whether they are in your price range.
Most importantly, know that God has already arranged and provided the editor you need, and the majority of your work in finding that editor will consist of resting in His presence and listening to His voice.
Thanks, Rachel, for the words of encouragement and the links! I need to research some more. So far, the editors whose sites I have read had very strict submission instructions. I don’t feel bad at them for that. It’s their business, and they need to work the way that’s best for them as well as their clients. I’ll keep looking!
I worked with a writing coach for six months and it was worth every penny. My advice is to be sure you and your editor/coach click and as Rachelle notes, that he/she will review what you’ve written and give input but then have you do the rewrites (so that you learn and stay with your own voice). My manuscript will be published this fall and I couldn’t have done it without my coach. She taught me a great deal about the craft of story telling and also recommended several great books on the writing that have helped me develop my skills. Yes, it’s expensive but it’s also an investment in yourself!
Great post, Rachelle. Thank you for the input.
Thank you, Rachelle, this type of advice is why I tune into you. I’m not ready for an editor yet, but I like your ideas and will keep them in mind.
I’m an indie, and working with my editor has been an amazing experience! I’m learning so much from her, and she’s pointed out some weak spots so I can concentrate on making them better.
I spent all of December and most of January doing a major edit on my next release, applying the stuff I’ve learned. I’m really hoping it shows and my editor won’t have as much to point out to me after she gets it.
I love working with her and she makes my writing better.
Thanks for this post, Rachelle!
I could probably afford a professional editor if I really wanted to go that route but I’m the OTJ type and for now I’m relying on my crit groups to tell me what doesn’t work and myself to figure out how to fix it. It’s slow going but I want to feel like my work is really my work and I’m afraid I’d rely on an editor too much.
Rachelle, I found this post so helpful, both as an author and as one who offers freelancing editing/critiquing/coaching services.
When I edit or critique I always set out to help the writer grow, knowing I’m not doing this person any favors by doing the work for her/him. Whether I make a suggested change myself (using Track Changes and including a note explaining why I recommend this change) or opt for a comment with tips for improvement, my goal is to equip the author with some new skills to apply independently.
It frustrates me when a writer clearly wants to get out of doing the hard work involved in pursuing publication. “Can you just clean this up for me? Everyone is begging for this book so I need to get it out there.” Of course it’s always nice to get paid to fix an entire manuscript, but at some point that author will need to stand on his or her own abilities.
It’s kind of like when a woman wears to ton of makeup and tries to convince her friends that she looks that wonderful all the time then suddenly gets caught in a rain storm. “Oh, wait, she looks way different now.” Eventually the truth comes out.
Even though I am a freelance editor, I hire someone else to edit my work. It is important to have someone who has a totally objective view of your manuscript make suggestions that go deeper than your critique group will.
For a similar reason is why I hired a freelance editor for a book of mine.
I’m getting enough feedback from agents and editors saying I’m a talented writer… but…
But…
I seem to have “enough” little mistakes here and there to keep them from absolutely falling in love with a piece (alas).
I get where they are coming from. I’m too close to my work to see it with a truly objective eye. I get too absorbed in the storyline, the characters, etc, to see the little faults.
An editor I’ve known for years is going through my ms and picking out those little things. There’s not a lot, but there’s “enough”.
Fortunately, it’s only an occasional slip-up, and not a gross problem with my mastery of the craft.
She’s a good editor and I’m glad to have her. Track Changes is our friend. Not only will she point out issues, but explain why they are issues. I’m learning. I hope sufficient mss aren’t so “enough”-ish.
Rachelle,
Thanks for posting this. As an independent editor, I often feel like what I’m actually doing is teaching the writer. I am gently pointing out what the author often cannot see because he or she is too close to the work. The author might not see that the opening really begins with chapter two, not chapter one, or that the author is over-explaining and not trusting the work, or simply needs to tighten the writing for greater effect. Rewriting is not the editor’s job; it’s the author’s job. My job is to bring the author’s work to its absolute best presentation. Thanks again, Rachelle.
-Valerie Brooks
I’ve just come across your blog and I’m really enjoying all the great content.
I was wondering if you’d be able to answer a question for me about writing proposals. I don’t have any experience with the marketing aspect of my writing and I’m wondering how much weight does that carry in whether a publisher will accept or reject your writing – even if it the writing is strong enough without the authour having an idea about where she’d begin with marketint it all?
I hope to hear from you and I’ve subscribed to your blog, thank you!
Thank you, Rachelle, for your comments on freelance editors. I have used two excellent ones for my books. I am fortunate in that they are good friends, as well as good editors, and they care about me and my work. Their objectivity is a true blessing–but you made me think about my need to grow in my own evaluation of my manuscripts. I have learned a great deal from them, and I need to trust that knowledge more. Thanks again!
The right advice just at the right time. Thank you so much.