Blogger: Rachelle Gardner
Write.
Edit.
Set aside.
Read.
Cringe.
Rewrite.
Pull hair out.
How do you know when your book is finished?
TWEETABLE
When is it time to finally call it done? Writers, chime in. (Click to Tweet.)
Image copyright: alphaspirit / 123RF Stock Photo
Shirlee Abbott
Oh my! The blessings of the digital age–I do love my delete and undo keys! Thus my wastebasket overfloweth not.
* My first book is not yet done, so I don’t exactly know. I imagine that it is when the edits become small tweaks instead of substantive shifts. When I’m not sure the edits are improvements. When I sense that I’m procrastinating instead of editing.
* It would be nice if God flashed a big STOP sign across my screen.
Jennifer Zarifeh Major
Yes. A stop sign would be awesome!
Teresa Tysinger
Shirlee, I think your thoughts mirror mine exactly. When the edits become small tweaks and you aren’t sure even those make much of an improvement. But, so hard to know for sure. That stop sign sure would be nice. 🙂
Rachelle Gardner
Shirlee, if you see a big STOP sign, we are going to worry about you. 🙂
Andrew Budek-Schmeisser
I’m done when, having freed David from the marble, I find myself tempted to perform cosmetic surgery on the poor chap.
Jennifer Zarifeh Major
Hopefully, not with a welding torch.
😉
Andrew Budek-Schmeisser
Nope. Shaped charges.
Jennifer Zarifeh Major
“Shaped charges?”
And what did Rachelle title this post ?
“Done and done”?
Yeah…umm…go type something. You can’t hurt yourself typing…
I hope.
Rachelle Gardner
Now THAT is a great way to describe it , Andrew. I may have to steal it to use in conversations with authors.
Richard Mabry
I’ve pondered over this question for the ten years and more that I’ve been on this road to writing, and I still don’t have the answer. As has been said about poems, it’s also true about novels–they are never finished, just abandoned. Let me know if you come up with the answer to this question. We’ll publish the result (self-publish, of course) and retire on the proceeds. : )
Bill Giovannetti
Best quote I’ve heard on this, Richard: “novels are never finished; just abandoned.” Perfect.
Rachelle Gardner
I think you’re right – we must abandon our works and move on to others. In our own minds, they’ll probably never be done!
Doris Swift
This is what I needed to hear! Change the beginning, change the middle, change the end, then change the beginning because you changed the end. It’s like wheeling your ten year old around in a baby carriage. Let it go, let it go…
Cathy West
Why is the sky blue? How do we know for sure the sun will rise in the morning? Why do some people not like coffee? There are no answers to such burning questions, really.
How do we know when a book is done? When you can quote it verbatim and can’t stand the thought of reading it One. More. Time.
And yet, you still have that niggling feeling that perhaps you’ve missed something.
It’s a terrible life, I don’t know why anyone would CHOOSE to be a writer.
Okay, but seriously – this is where you have to trust your instinct. When you know you’ve done your BEST work, that’s when it’s done. If you have an agent, when you send it off and she or he responds with a thumbs up, then you’re on the way. If an editor says she loves it, it is done. Except it’s not, really, because then there are edits, and line edits and final galleys … the journey is long. SO until you finally hold that baby in your hands and it has a front cover (with your name on it) and a back cover and pages with words on them, it is not done. Once it is available for folks to pay real money for, it’s done. Once you start getting those fabulous reviews, it’s done. (But you haven’t really ‘made it’ until you get that 1 star review – it’s like a badge of honor, trust me).
And probably even then, if you read it, you’re going to second guess yourself and wonder whether you should have killed off Aunt Muriel in Chapter 2 instead of Chapter 10 but it’s too late now so let’s just move on.
All that said, I still suspect this is a rhetorical question.
Jennifer Zarifeh Major
Yup.
And I have to say, knowing what I know from going through this with several very close friends has opened my eyes to what the road to publication really looks like. And there are A LOT of hills.
Although, Aunt Muriel was annoying enough that the first page would have been fine. 😉
Rachelle Gardner
I think you had it right with “trust your instincts.” You know when it’s time to let go!
Andrew Budek-Schmeisser
Here are two paradigms that might be worth considering –
1) The book’s done when a loyal and long-suffering beta reader, on reading yet another draft on which you laboured long and loudly, exclaims “But you didn’t CHANGE anything!” and hurls an ashtray at your head.
2) And it’s done when the emphasis shifts from storytelling to refining the elegance of language, because that can lead to the pretension of preciousness whereby many a good story is rendered artsy and ultimately mundane.
* Not that I use either of these. I’m done when the hamster gets bored and wants to do something else. I own the story, not vice-versa.
Shelli Littleton
Yeah, that stack of wadded papers reminds me how grateful I am for computers, for certain. When is a MS done?
*Well, it’s like cleaning up the kitchen … when you’ve gone over it, cleaned every nook and cranny (whatever that is!), and you just can’t find one more thing to clean … it sparkles. It just feels finished.
*When your mind runs out of adjustments.
*And oh, when you make changes … ensure you don’t leave any mistakes behind, or you’ll never be finished. Double check your changes.
*Finished=the feeling that you are finally free to move on to the next project.
*But like Cathy said, it’s not finished until you CAN’T make any more changes.
Jennifer Zarifeh Major
My mind ran out of adjustments a LONNNNG time ago.
And I never worry about my kitchen. Why? Free range teenage boys.
Davalynn Spencer
Free range teenage boys. Yes!
Shelli Littleton
Lol. It took a year for mine to run out of adjustments on that last MS. I’m having so much fun on this new work. Oh. my. word. Writing is so glorious. When I first started, I got afraid that I might not could finish another story … what if I start and can’t do it … but I took it day by day … scene by scene … it’s moving along … and I’m encouraged today. 🙂
*And kitchen … cleaning … deep cleaning … that was that one time I cleaned it really good … right before you came over. 😉 But even then, I thought, Jennifer has free range boys, she won’t care what it looks like. 🙂 And that was so relieving.
Rachelle Gardner
Although, of course, sometimes you have to let go and move on, without every reaching that point that you CAN’T make any more changes. 🙂
Shelli Littleton
I’m hoping that day comes for me … when I have deadlines and can’t keep working on it! 😉
Andrew Budek-Schmeisser
There’s a Zen saying that might apply – You can polish a tile for a thousand years but it will never be a mirror.
* Which reminds me of a story…long ago, the ranking enlisted (called, traditionally, Chief of the Boat) on a PacFlt submarine went ashore on liberty in Sasebo, and proceeded to a tattoo parlour, whereupon the boat’s XO saw him getting Zen proverbs inked onto his chest. The XO asked “Why?”, and the Chief of the Boat replied, “Oh, well, I just felt like some koan on the COB.”
Carol Ashby
Groan!
Jennifer Zarifeh Major
I know, right?
But who among us saw “koan” coming ?
Shelli Littleton
Seriously? I’m gonna have to Google “koan.” I did. That’s like a word Jennifer would use in Scrabble. One I’ve never heard before. 😉
Jennifer Zarifeh Major
Muahahahaha!!!!
Lori Benton
It’s done when the deadline hits. Seriously. Until I had deadlines I fiddled endlessly with manuscripts. I wrote new ones, but still revisited the old ones for another edit whenever time allowed. I would do it still if I could. I know this because I just turned in my upcoming April release after the final proofread and I still wanted to make changes that, at this stage, cannot be made.
Shelli Littleton
Oh, Lori. That’s got to be gut-wrenching. But I’m sure you just have to release it to the Lord … trusting that it’s exactly as He would have it. And I know it will be amazing. A-m-a-z-i-n-g. I fiddled with my last MS for a year. I’ve often wondered about deadlines … how much time one is given to write a novel. And does that vary with publishers? I imagine there are many variables. Thank you for sharing those insights and your heart.
Lori Benton
It can be hard to want to make changes and be unable to at that last stage of editing (the proof read), but it’s also a bit amusing. That I still want to. That a certain word choice is so important to me. It’s also an indication that I’m still growing as a writer (yay!). I’ll never be totally happy with any novel that’s finished because although at the time I wrote it I did my best, six months or a year later I realize I can do better, wish I had done better, WILL do better. Next time. 🙂
Shelli Littleton
I love that, Lori! That is completely encouraging to me.
Rachelle Gardner
I love your answer! It’s so true. Once you have deadlines, you no longer have the luxury of wondering when to call it done.
Jennifer Zarifeh Major
Some of the BEST advice you’ve ever given? “Enjoy the freedom of writing what you want, while is lasts”.
Jennifer Zarifeh Major
That was supposed to be a reply to Lori’s comment.
Andrew Budek-Schmeisser
Excellent point. If you work at a public US university, you CAN be subject to administrative action if you wish someone a Merry Christmas. The recipient of the felicitation may be delighted, but if someone ELSE hears you, you can be turned in. It’s all about the ‘inclusiveness’ that seems to include everyone but Christians.
* So, yes, write it while you can. And write with the hope of changing things.
Bill Giovannetti
Great question. In my writing, I know a writing project is finished when all my fussing stops making it better, and only makes it different. Even still, Richard’s statement above is the best I’ve heard.
Rachelle Gardner
When it stops making it better, and only makes it different. THAT is a fantastic marker, Bill.
John Wells
Interesting question. Proofread and beta input? Read aloud? These could be obvious stopping points. I guess when I’ve grown sick of proofing and polishing and tweaking and started thinking about the next project, I’ve gone about as far as I can go. Didn’t sell? I’ve been told that Melville’s MOBY DICK didn’t sell either. Maybe when my fairy godmother comes to me in a dream and says begin research on a new project about “Peter’s Cousin,” who’s a pharisee. Now that ought to put the old one to bed.
Rachelle Gardner
Let me know if you hear from that Fairy Godmother, John. I might want to make a reservation with her.
Andrew Budek-Schmeisser
Guys, it’s not really about being ‘done’. It’s not the most elegant descriptions of the most fetching words. This is about witnessing for Jesus.
* Write what you have, and then write some more. Write your love for Christ, write it raw, and then…write some more. The Big J didn’t parse His words. We owe Him the same.
Shelli Littleton
I love this blog site. You guys lift me up every single day.
Andrew Budek-Schmeisser
And you, dear Shelli, with your giant’s faith and immense heart, give me the strength to keep writing.
Shelli Littleton
Thank you, Andrew. 🙂
Teresa Tysinger
In addition to the wise input from you all already, I’d say that I feel something is nearing done when I’m not feeling as passionate about the characters. I feel satisfied with how their story has been wrapped up. With my first MS, this didn’t happen until I could read through several pages without distraction of mechanical errors, less than stellar word choice, etc. Not to say I still don’t fret over what might could be better. What maybe needs more attention. Places the reader may want more. I’d love to know how you all deal with continuing to make one manuscript (finished) the best it can be while a new idea for the next book is banging at the door?
Shelli Littleton
Teresa, I waited until I was completely finished with one (took me a year) before I started the next. I started working on the plot of the next one though before ACFW … just in case I was asked about my next work. When I knew that one was complete, as far as it depended on me, and the other started nipping at my heels, and I had nothing else pressing on me, I started it. 🙂 That might not help much … but it’s all I have. 😉
Teresa Tysinger
Thanks, Shelli. That’s what I’m thinking, too. Don’t want one hanging over my head while I’m getting excited about the next. Better to wrap all ties up. HUGS, friend!
Andrew Budek-Schmeisser
prayers please, very ill, day just went to crap
Teresa Tysinger
Oh, Andrew. So sorry. Praying for your comfort and peace.
John Wells
I’ve added you to my morning prayer list, Andrew. God bless.
Andrew Budek-Schmeisser
John, thank you. I’m on a steep slope, and I’m hurting.
Jennifer Zarifeh Major
I’ve “finished” two manuscripts and am working on the third of the series.
The first one that I wrote was perfect!!!
…for the bottom of a bird cage.
If someone wanted to make my life a nightmare, they’d read my early stuff out loud.
I’ve added a few tiny details to each manuscript, simply because in the latest read through, some plot points needed a one or two sentence tweak.
Other than that, I’m done.
I think.
Maybe.
Lara Hosselton
I suppose the MS is officially “done” when the book is printed, but I’m not sure I could read it. I’d still want to make changes. Ugh.
Tammy Fish
For me, it was a deadline. A friend alerted me to a writing project sponsored by the Multnomah County library. As my novel is a historical fiction about Portland, I felt it was the right time. I must say, what a relief to have closure….Like many of you stated, the tweaks were becoming insignificant, and frankly, I didn’t know if the final adjustments I kept making were making the novel better or worse. Now for the marketing….
Peter DeHaan
1) When your deadline has arrived.
2) When edits aren’t making it better, only different.
3) When you realize you are just procrastinating.
Jeanette Hanscome
When it’s due!
Haha!!!
I knew my book was done when I started overthinking what I’d written. I sensed that I might be running the risk of editing the heart of a very personal book. It was like something in me said, “Stop. It’s the editor’s turn now. If something needs changing, she’ll tell you. It’s time to let go of this book.” So I hit Send. Actually, I let my son hit Send. He pretended to think that was dorky, but I caught him enjoying himself.
Jen Freeman
My issue is that l am very close to actually writing the end of my first book in a trilogy, and find myself re-editing instead of finishing the book :-/
Sharyn Kopf
There comes a point in the revision process — for me, anyway — when I realize my love for the story is fading and in danger of turning to apathy or annoyance or even serious dislike. I don’t want to hate my book. That’s when I believe it’s time to let it go.
Neil Pitts
When everything in it has said everything that needs to be said on the subject, within the context of the book’s parameters – the question is, really – did you set them properly? You have to see it in 3-D space and time. I have just been through a large period of redefining Origins of the New World Order’s parameters – who is it speaking to? What do they need to know? It was very difficult to write. Now I have finished it, because I CAN’T change anything else about it. Maybe an easier book would have been finished sooner. In other words, if you call a book, “I am” and the only words in it are, “I am”, then you can finish it pretty fast.
Kristen Joy Wilks
I used to think it would be done when an agent gave me a thumbs up . . . but that has yet to happen. And I realized that is a bit optimistic anyway. Edits happen even after that, I hear. Now I realize the story is done when my editor refuses to accept any more e-mails from me that have the word “correction” in the topic bar. Who would have known?