Blogger: Wendy Lawton
PET PEEVE: People giving or passing along bogus career advice. I know. I know. It’s a symptom of our culture to dispense advice, wanted or unwanted, and some of us can’t help ourselves. After all, what is this blog but an advice dispensary? But I see so much off-the-wall stuff I can’t help commenting.
So let’s talk about bad advice here today. Let me start with a few sources of bad advice:
- Writer’s organizations— Some outrageous claims and advice have filtered down from online writers groups. The good thing is that an online groups is usually a forum where, if a person offers an opinion, several others jump in and give a balanced viewpoint. I have, however, experienced some in which certain viewpoints become so entrenched that those who normally offer balance become weary and tiptoe off. I’ve also observed that some Christian writers groups can paint an overly depressing picture of the industry because the writers who are succeeding don’t offer the counterpoint to those struggling. The successful seem to feel it is bragging or discounting the suffering of others to give a praise about a high five-figure deal, for instance, and so before long members are left with the stories of suffering. It’s like the old prayer meetings at church. When prayer request after prayer request concern lost jobs, bad diagnoses and prodigal children, who is “insensitive” enough to lift a hand to give a praise about a promotion at work?
- Writer friends— I’ve been part of a number of writer critique groups and noticed that in our eagerness to help we are all too ready to give advice based on one response from one editor or one conversation at a writer’s conference. Certain members seem to become advisors based on being just a few steps ahead of the others and dispense suggestions that can be way out in left field.
- Workshop presenters— Just because someone has been asked to present a workshop does not make that person an expert. For more than fifteen years I bought all the tapes from nearly every writers conference I attended and listened to them throughout the year. I’ve heard more crazy stuff than you’d ever believe. I’ve been a workshop presenter for many years and I never listen to my own tapes for the same reason. I know I can get carried away at times as well. When Janet Grant and I used to help plan the professional track at Mount Hermon we avoided offering a single presenter. Instead we offered mostly panels because the balance came out in the back-and-forth.
- Futurists— Yeah. ‘Nuff said. If you are going to take the advice of those who claim to know where the industry is going, more power to ye.
- Editors— Acquisition editors usually give excellent advice but remember, it is based on their house and their particular specialty. Don’t extrapolate this to be industry-wide. Each publisher is different.
- Other professionals— You may hear advice from publicists. marketers, social media specialists, etc. Often each one has a good idea or two but it’s important to collect many pieces of advice to try to find a happy medium. Just like with a panel discussion, listen to both sides of any opinion.
- Self-appointed experts— You know them. They establish a blog, try to gin up some controversy, and continue to position themselves as experts.
- Articles— Just because something is in print or on a website doesn’t mean the content has been curated.
- Anecdotes— Beware the stories that quote statistics. I’ve seen more bogus statistics than anything else. One trick with reporting success, for instance, is to take one statistical spike and build a pro forma model based on that. Dishonest.
So what’s a writer to do?
- Test the advice— Question it. Look for the dissenting voice to find possible balance. Be skeptical. Always remember the story of the ten blind men and the elephant. Each piece of advice may only be part of the picture.
- Look at the track record— If the person dispensing advice has a long track record of good advice or if you find a futurist who is wise and more right than wrong, give that voice more weight.
- Look at the motive— Some advice comes from someone who wants something from you– a marketer who wants your business, an agent who wants to woo you away from your current agent, a fellow writer who wants admiration, etc.
- Run it all by your trusted team— Build a team of wise, well-read advisors, people you can argue with and with whom you can rightly divide the truth from the fluff. Or just run it by your agent. 🙂
Even with our own Books & Such blog, consider each post as one single point of view. The nice thing about us is that we are a team of five agents who tend to run these things by our colleagues. There’s not a one of us who is afraid to say, I disagree with you. And, even better, we invite your opinion on each blog post. If we are off base, confront us.
So how about you? How do you test opinions and suggestions? How much do you trust futurists? What about a panel of professionals who prognosticate about what’s the next hot trend? How do you keep from being a wide-eyed believer?
And, the winner of last week’s CLASSICS is Janet Ann Collins! Here are the books coming her way. Janet, can you email me and give me your address?
Andrew Budek-Schmeisser
Great article, Wendy! I get a lot of advice, in kind of a different area…
– “Get some rest!”…Why? So I’ll be the best-rested stiff in the crematorium? (For some reason Barb doesn’t think much of a Viking funeral.)
– “Admit it…you’re depressed!”…OK, if you can inform my mental health, I’ll inform YOUR physical health, and you’ll be taking meals through a straw for a couple of months. Fair trade?
– “If you prayed harder and bought Pastor Dimwit’s $99 CD on effective prayer, you’d be healed!”…Yeah, and if you actually looked at the Gospel story, you’d be a Christian,
– “If you accepted your limitations and didn’t keep trying to be Don Quixote, you’d find peace.”…you know, that’s RIGHT. And one of my limitations is ‘not enough time’, so adios, turkey.
* I don’t read writing advice. It may be shortsighted, but I know what I want to say, and how I want to say it. Someone who’s read my stuff and has concrete suggestions, that’s different…but the people out there talking for the sheer love of the sound of their own voice, and selling (for ego or money) their view of the future…
Adios, turkeys.
Andrew Budek-Schmeisser
For the record, my view of a Viking funeral is quite modern, and involves a large amount of a (legal) binary explosive caller tannerite.
* Thus can I finally and forever fulfill the old challenge…”You want a piece of me?”
Damon J. Gray
I love your sense of humor. 😉
Andrew Budek-Schmeisser
Damon, thanks! 🙂
Shirlee Abbott
This topic, Wendy, is a great testimony to the work of the Holy Spirit in our lives. Discernment is one of the Spirit’s gifts. Sometimes I feel a gentle tug away from a piece of advice that intrigues me–God’s gentle,”not for you, my child.” Other advice seemingly arrives in bold print, God’s “sit up and take notice.” My prayer mentor said that was God’s thumb in my back.
*Of course, there’s the not-so-gentle voice of experience: lessons learned by running off willy-nilly on a path that presents as a shortcut, but proves to be, at best, a really long detour. Been there, as they say, done that.
Nicholas Faran
Advice! We get it on all sides. Whether it is good advice or bad, it is all well meant. Our task, then, is to sift this advice to find a path forward for ourselves. We must approach this prayerfully, asking for wisdom and clarity. Then we must have the courage to face those who’s advice we have chosen not to follow.
I am receiving a lot of advice right now. Alas it is not to do with writing.
I felt I should return here to bring my story up to date, since I left in rathe mysterious and difficult circumstances.
That particular family crises around my daughter was resolved safely, but I fear it triggered an even greater crises. This last year my writing has mostly gone on hold as I have been fighting to save my marriage. Alas a few weeks ago my wife of 20 years has left our home and I am heartbroken. Since then relations have been difficult and there is a lot of anger. I feel immense pain and sorrow for children in this situation and the words acrimonious I never thought would apply to us.
Please hold us in your prayers. I have missed my brief sojourn within a writing community and I hope to return when all this is resolved.
Many, many thanks, and sorry to hijack the comments.
Andrew Budek-Schmeisser
Nicholas, I am so sorry for your trouble. You’ve been missed, and I’ll be holding you up in prayer.
* As to hijacking, my feeling is to what end this community, if it is not to support one another in times of need? I think Tennyson said it best:
“Pray for my soul. More things are wrought by prayer
Than this world dreams of. Wherefore, let thy voice
Rise like a fountain for me night and day.
For what are men better than sheep or goats
That nourish a blind life within the brain,
If, knowing God, they lift not hands of prayer
Both for themselves and those who call them friend?
For so the whole round earth is every way
Bound by gold chains about the feet of God.”
* Only God can know what the future holds, dear Nicholas, but your personality has become a part of this place, and the healing of your heart is our hearts’ hope.
Nicholas Faran
Thank you Andrew. Your words are kind and you prayers appreciated. I have missed sharing the writers journey with all here, but it is comforting to know that though one maybe gone, one is not forgotten. God truly is in the heart of this little community and my prayer for all is that He may reward you all for your faith and works.
God Bless you
Shelli Littleton
Nicholas, I am praying for you. I’m so sorry about your situation.
Damon J. Gray
Nocholas, no need for any apologies. And yes, I will pray for you, your wife, and your children as others have said. A family reunited could be a very gloriously powerful witness to the healing work of the Holy Spirit in your lives.
Janet Ann Collins
Nicholas, I’m praying for you and your family.
Jeanne Takenaka
Wendy, you’re right. Advice is everywhere. It’s so easy to think we know enough to share advice with those who share things with us. Your listing of places that can offer bad advice surprised me. But they make sense. When we don’t get a balanced perspective, our understanding about something will be skewed. When advice is offered, we need to consider the background of the person/organization offering the advice.
*Your suggestions for filtering advice make a lot of sense. When I hear advice I try to filter the words offered through God’s word, through what I already know to be true, the the reputation of the person offering it, and how it fits with other facts I know about. And I try to always pray about the advice offered before moving forward.
Thank you for this great post, Wendy!
Damon J. Gray
I love the “Test the Advice” advice. I have a sign on my office wall, right about eye level that reads:
Fail fast.
Fail often.
Go with what works!
Andrew Budek-Schmeisser
Damon, hmmm…I have a sign that reads,
“Age and treachery will always overcome youth and skill.”
* Was that Norman Vincent Peale? Or Josef Stalin?
Damon J. Gray
That was likely said by the same Klingon who said, “Brute strength is not the most important asset in a fight.”
Jeanette Raymond
Hi Wendy,
This topic is interesting. I spent alot of time gathering different viewpoints on writing in the past couple years after being given advice to read everything I could get my hands on. It was at times overwhelming to see all involved and other times exciting to have the light shine on areas I hadn’t understood. I’m thankful for those who give in this area of writing and editing to help others. I’m thankful there is material out there to improve. With that being said I have become a writer who now reads and wonders is this right? Not in a critical spirit toward the author not in the spirit of wanting to appear to know more nor do I wish to be an expert above expert but with being told read everything you can learn to edit to almost the point of perfection LOL I say this is the tone of humility where does the balance come from in tightening our work for some who like the work easier to read and faster to read? reading books sometimes looking newer and finding they are five years back and have the wording with alot of passive voice, and sentences with forbidden words just that ect…now burn in my brain while I read. I stop reading now and wonder as I said in the beginning is this sentence right? Is this how it’s suppose to read or is this an error? My greatest reasoning for asking is I want to learn the correct way but there are many correct ways many creative paths and many agency’s who have their paths. Is this the right way of thinking? If so where does the writer who wants to get it right begin when wanting to send in a manuscript to this agency? Do you have suggestions in writing style this group prefers when it comes to editing? I realize all voices are unique :). I hadn’t heard of the term futurists before. Does this mean those who believe words should be eliminated to read faster?
Angie Arndt
I admit it: I have a tendency to research a topic to death. I usually end up doing as you suggested: look at his/her track records, discuss it with my trusted craft partners, then we pray about it. (Prayer as the final filter, not the last resort.)
If it passes all those tests, I’ll try it out to see if it works. Like most here have said, it doesn’t have to be permanent.
Jeanette Raymond
Hi Angie, Love your reminder it’s not permanent, I think I’m coming from the angle of wanting to get to the bottom of the Loves of the agency, reader and publishers. I’m more than willing to rewrite or redo but when the writer become so familiar with the accurate way wanted its like a spouse observing their wants and desires likes and dislikes, the focus is no longer on what the mistakes or failed attempts are but on the victories in getting to the things which work and perfecting them. I also agree prayer is awesome in the process. Why work harder my attempts are to get to the bottom so I can work smarter. Getting to the deadline with the tools which work. Maybe for me it begins by Knowing God and recognizing His leading in my daily life, Prayer for guidance through Him or others, and buckling down to find the golden gems needed to get the job done. For those who write Christian Fiction here what is your guidelines in completing a manuscript ready to submit to this agency? Is there something you do like a well oil machine of experience every time in preparing for submission? What is the majority consensus here on passive voice and musts in editing?
Jerusha Agen
Great idea to research so much, Angie! I need to do that more. Very wise.
Shelli Littleton
Wendy, that’s why it’s so hard for me to watch the news at times. Because it’s all bad, and we rarely hear the good. The world is led to believe that there are no good people, there’s no love … but that’s not true. After all the horrific footage coming out of the Houston area, I was so pleased to see pictures of tons of boats and people pressing through the waters to save others. Yes! Beautiful sight in the midst of loss. We need those praises to balance the bad. Because that’s how we press through the flood waters of life. *And I was so thrilled to see one of our young YA writers and commenters here offered a 6-figure deal … yes … hope!
Wendy L Macdonald
“Trusted team” caught my eye, Wendy. Thank you (and all of you at Books and Such) for sharing wisdom from your trustworthy team of agents. Your agency blog was the first one I started following. I use it as a benchmark in deciding which other ones are worth reading too.
Congrats, Janet Ann Collins, on winning the books. 🙂
Wendy, the book “Your God is Too Small” just happens to be one of the books I moved from one room to another one yesterday (big change is afoot in our home). I also got it from a Pastor’s wife. Seeing it here has me wondering if I’m getting a Divine hint to read it. There’s some big stuff going on in my life that requires me to trust in a more than big enough God. I love it when He encourages us just in time.
Blessings ~ Wendy Mac
Traci
Great post! This is why I quit most indie author groups. Everybody thought they were an expert and it seems like the second book most people published was their expert how to guide.
In the end I couldn’t spend any more time trying to straighten out the bad advice and misconceptions that were spreading. Doing that didn’t leave me any time to write!
Jennifer Zarifeh Major
Ah, the advice of experts.
My darling husband is (for real) an expert on cross-pollination in red and black spruce. He’s currently doing studies on bee pollination of certain trees in re-claimed mine sites. Yes, he’s been stung.
But does he know anything about shade tolerant day-lilies? Nope. Did he act like he did? Yup. Did his wife (the amateur gardener) school him? Ohhh, yeah. No, he wasn’t even remotely offended. Why? Because I proved that I knew my stuff.
It’s not just the experts who know stuff that we need to observe and evaluate. It’s also the experts who crown themselves in areas that are similar enough to their field to fool us into faith in their made-up theories.
My “wide-eyed believer” left town a while ago, after she bought too many lies and got hit in the feels a few too many times.
She got edged out by her jaded cousin, “Little Miss Prove It.”
Jerusha Agen
Love this post, Wendy! This is packed with terrific points. I really love your point about how we so often, even in church settings, don’t want to share our good news/praises for fear of appearing insensitive or like we’re bragging. But, as you say, we should share the good news, giving all the glory and thanks to our Father who gave us those blessings! Hearing the reminder that God gives good gifts and works in mighty ways is such an encouragement. In order to hear the good news rightly, though, those of us without the good news need to learn to respond to praises rightly so people feel free to share (easier said than done!). You’re so right, too, that we need to be careful not to take one person’s (even a professional’s) opinion as the gospel truth, nor to repeat it as such. Great advice. Thanks!
Julia Kovach
(Error in “online organizations”, “….The good thing is that an online groups…”).
Sarah Loudin Thomas
And I’ve learned (the hard way–my favorite way to learn), that if you’re the one GIVING advice you have to remember that you don’t, in fact, have all the answers. I find phrases like, “in my experience,” and “as I understand it,” to be invaluable.
Andrew Budek-Schmeisser
Sarah, when giving advice I just say, in the haughtiest tone possible, “Well, I have a Ph.D.”
* Then I put on the best ‘learned academician expression’ I can…it’s the one that Barbara says makes me look like a meditative goat.
Sarah Thomas
I just tell people I’m from West Virginia and then anything I offer tends to exceed their expectations 😉
Andrew Budek-Schmeisser
Sarah, my wife’s family is from West Virginia (now transplanted to Hoosierville), so I TOTALLY get it! They’re awesome.
Damon J. Gray
Okay Sarah, that’s just funny, and that’s all there is to that story. 🙂
Shelli Littleton
That’s funny, Sarah. 🙂
Jerusha Agen
Great advice, Sarah!
Jaxon M King
Thank you, Wendy. Great points about being skeptical and finding a balance within various opinions.
I have a family member who has admitted to me, on a couple of occasions, that even if he’s not exactly sure how something should be done, he will do his best to make others believe he is. And the more his competence is doubted, especially in his professional field, the more aggressive and rigid his opinion becomes. I guess he should be commended for his honesty, but it makes me wonder how many of us “professionals”, in any field, act similarly at times.
Jaxon M King
Here’s someone else praying for you and your family, Nicholas.
Jeanette Hanscome
When testing opinions and suggestions, I’ve learned to consider how much experience the one offering them actually has. As I look back over the advice I took as a newbie writer, I’m shocked over how often it came from those who had few or even no publishing credits! Yet I trusted their expertise because they were so convincing. This is one reason why I try to be so careful about giving advice.
Janet Ann Collins
Thank you Wendy! I can hardly wait to get those books.
Rick Barry
Wendy, along this line, care to comment about Deep POV? Ten years ago, I’d never heard of it before a workshop leader explained it in a conference. But now I see and hear so many helpful souls shooting down any manuscript not written in Deep POV because, “It’s not written right.” At the same time, there are wonderfully prolific authors making a bundle of income who don’t use Deep POV. Seems to me that the preference expressed by a few has been so oft repeated that it’s been placed on a pedestal as the only “proper” technique.
Elizabeth Bohan (ej bohan)
I loved this blog. So insightful and relevant to making prudent choices.
I am very picky who I listen to advice from. The person first of all has to be someone whose character and values I agree with, optimally with a Biblical world view; although, there are areas where even if the person is not a Christian, I pay attention to what marks them as an expert or someone who has a proven track record of dispensing reasonable and prudent information. I pray always because only God knows who to use. So I use prayer, preparation by checking out as many sources of information about the advice giver I can, prudence in thinking things through and passing it before my husband and God and practicality, such as you said regarding the futurist.
Janet Ann Collins
Wendy, did you get the e-mail I sent you?